- AA claimed that Alcoholism was a disease - Alcoholism has never fit the criteria of a disease (not the current definition and neither any past definitions)
- 12 steps advocates - NOT taking responsibility for your actions. Real shame isn't it?
- AA has never adjusted, evaluated or re-evaluated their steps or service in the past however many years it has been
- AA itself has never done any research or has statistics to provide their success rates
- ONE research done in 1983 showed that people who go through AA - sucess rate 5%, people who don't go through it 5% - AA makes no difference!
Penn& Teller - They did have a point.
Here are the 12 steps and some commentary by a fellow blogger
#1) We admitted we were powerless over alcohol -- that our lives had become unmanageable.
We admitted that we had no self-control. We drank because we wanted to drink, and we wanted to drink more than we wanted to do anything else. Maybe diving into a bottle was better than actually dealing with stuff. Who cares? It was funner.
#2) Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
Gave up our own will, in order to rely on an abstract. We looked to the heavens and decided that they were better than our own minds, because we were always juiced up, and our minds were a little imbalanced.
#3) Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
Completely threw our hands in the air, and stated that we are incapable of taking care of ourselves, so we should just let someone else take care of it. I don't trust anybody actually around me to help, so I believe that I'll let "God" do all the work. Let's all head over to the nearest church basement and let "God's chosen representative (tm)" tell us how to live our lives. "Just think of the stories we can get these people to tell, that is if they can remember any of them."
#4) Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
Whose "morals"? Ours or someone elses?
#5) Admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
I fucked up, and I told somebody else about it. They didn't beat me or call me bad names, so I guess it was a good thing. Who cares if it was a bus driver and a voice in my head that I told it to?
#6) Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
I am not perfect and that is unnacceptible! I must be perfect in the eyes of someone! Wait, I'll make someone up who thinks I'm okay!
#7) Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
Oh crap! Now I actually have to ask the person I just made up to do, what I made him up for. What kind of crap is this?
#8) Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
First I'd like to recognize Mom. She went through labor to bring me into this world, so I am willing to watch Fahrenheit 9/11, 911 times to atone for the grievous pain I caused her.
#9) Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
Obviously the F 9/11 thing won't work, as watching that "film" 911 times will only encourage him to make more. I could never do that to society.
#10) Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
"Socks, check. Shirt, Check. Clean underwear, Weeeeeeelllllllll...I'm wrong for not having clean underwear!" Someone hug me.
#11) Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God, as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
"Hey there dude. I know I just created you out of thin air 'n stuff, but can you tell me what you want me to do? Oh yeah, and make me do it too?"
#12) Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.
"So stranger. I notice that you are imbibing a substance that I no longer partake of. Let me introduce you to the fellow that I "just made up". He's really groovy, and will fix all your problems. All you gotta do is ask him."
I say "Do it your Damn-Self". If you can't find any "real people" out there to help you out and give you the support that you need, you need to find some new friends and/or family.
If you don't want to quit, then you won't. If you do (no I mean really do) want to give it up, you will. It's just that simple. Make up your mind and do what you want to do.
One step. Much simpler.
i liked #3. :)
ReplyDeletei just love that show ...
ReplyDeletei've watched upto season 3 ...
season 4 says ... "file format not supported" ...
damn it ...
file formats r bullshiitt ...
hehe ...
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteSorry: I accidentally removed my comment- so here it goes again:
ReplyDeletenever knew that AA was associated with such religious-ness. But i can understand why one may want to call it a disease, (weird thought coming up): Diseases are curable so if u think of ur state as a disease maybe u also condition your mind to thinking its curable???
subsubcorpus - ehhe yeah damn good show. :) have you tried torrents yet? I found some good ones on EZTV and mininova
ReplyDeleteTransitions - Diseases are most of the time curable, BUT - most of the time you have little or no control over how you get the disease, in the case of alcoholism, you have everything do to with it, thats why, I woudn't call it a disease. They are not helpless, self responsibility should count here , shoudn't it?
The Penn and teller show on AA was full of error. First of all, alcoholism DOES meet the criteria for a disease. Secondly, they make the common mistake of confusing mere substance abuse with actual chemical dependency - a world of diference. I like Penn and Teller, but they blew it on this one. Penn said it himself early in the show that he didn't know squat about alcoholism. It appears they listened to the opinions of their writers who obviously had an ax to grind against AA. Very sad. If you care to discuss it further, write me at jjanuszewski@gmail.com. JJ
ReplyDeleteSuccess Rates. Success Rates. A.A. Statistics
ReplyDeleteEnough Already?
Dick B.
© 2008 by Anonymous. All rights reserved
The hills are alive with the sound of statistics. Statistics on A.A. success rates. Statistics on A.A. relapses. Statistics on recovery rates. Statistics on early A.A. cures. And surveys of A.A. and 12-Step populations, and other groups.
Have we had enough? The search engines and the web sites might suggest a continued interest, but they don’t prove the value or need.
As one who has written his share on successes, failures, and cures, I’m not prepared to discard the work already in place, whether mine or that of someone else. But I do think it’s appropriate to suggest some conditions for evaluation.
The conditions:
• Do the statistics come from eye witness statements, rosters, or records.
• Are sample studies based on sound statistical measures, random samples, etc.
• Is a survey conducted by someone who either uses eye-witness materials or follows sound statistical methods.
• Is the surveyed population sufficiently broad—covering visitors, rim-runnners, “be-backs,” the disenchanted, and those who went elsewhere and succeeded.
• Does the survey distinguish between alcoholics and addicts, dual-addicted and poly-addicted, religious and non-religious, atheists and believers, professionals and participants, attenders and observers, “approved” and non-approved literature sources.
• Are the same people questioned or surveyed more than once in alternative meetings, groups, and populations—thus counting the same person’s replies in several different arenas
• Is the surveyor promoting treatment, therapy, religious preferences, A.A. hostility.
• Is the measure of “participation” based on subjective value judgments such as “meetings attended,” “sponsorship,” “service,” “taking the steps,” “membership.”
• Has any effort been made to distinguish between those who subscribe to some “higher power” theory, those who believe in the Creator, those who believe that A.A. is “spiritual, but not religious.”
There many factors that could be sifted and explained, but the real question is why any survey is published at all. Does the survey help a newcomer to achieve permanent sobriety today. Does the survey help improve a fellowship. Is the survey used to justify treatment, rehabs, therapy, drug courts, research, grants, and new endeavors in the pharmaceutical, nutritional, psychological, science, and medical activity. Is it conducted by someone with a conflict of interest.
The Early Program
Over and over, I have published the following statement: “Early A.A. had a documented 75% to 93% success rate among seemingly hopeless, medically incurable, real alcoholics who went to any lengths to establish a relationship with God.” A.A. literature so states. The Big Book provides one of the 75% reports. DR. BOB and the Good Oldtimers provides the 93% report on Cleveland. Rosters naming names and dates of sobriety and terminal dates of the early pioneers so state. I have personally seen several and checked out one for accuracy with Dr. Bob’s daughter before she died. These rosters have been sent to the Griffith Library in East Dorset, Vermont, where they are available for inspection. Bill Wilson frequently reported on the “counting of noses” that he, Dr. Bob, and Anne Smith conducted in late 1937 in which they identified 40 men who had maintained continuing sobriety (20), those who had relapsed but returned (10), and those who had “shown improvement.” Examples of Bill’s statements can be found in the DR. BOB book and elsewhere. Wilson and his wife frankly conceded that Bill himself had achieved no success whatever with the drunks he tried to help in New York in his first six months, nor with those whom the Wilsons had taken into their homes in the early years. This information can be found in Alcoholics Anonymous Comes of Age and in Lois Remembers. Richard K. of Massachusetts has published four land-mark, detailed studies of the early pioneers and confirmed the foregoing facts. These were published by the Golden Text Publishing Company. There is a large scrap book of newspaper articles from across the nation in the first decade extending from 1935 to 1945 that contains the statements of early AAs that they had been cured by the power of God. A complete copy of the scrap book contents has now been lodged at the new Dr. Bob Core Library at North Congregational Church in St. Johnsbury, Vermont.
Though true, what is the value of such statistical material in helping newcomers today.
The answer I have given is that a newcomer: (1) has to want to hear the history and the statistics: (2) then needs to hear accurate historical information (including statistics), if he or she wants to hear it; (3) then needs to decide whether he or she wants to believe accurate historical information and statistics; (4) has to want to apply the early A.A. program ideas today; and (5) at the very least, has to be willing to abstain permanently, believe in the Creator, obey His will, grow in fellowship with Him, and provide love and service to others still suffering. My belief, based on my own experience and comparing it with the early program, is that this historical foundation can and does provide the basis for achieving a permanent cure, a new life, and a worthy future for those previously deemed hopeless failures and where willing to place their trust in the Creator.
Gloria Deo
dickb@dickb.com
thanks for the comment
ReplyDeleteHI
ReplyDeleteAny information about how to stop drinking Alcohol...
john smith
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danica
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